The Compliance Word

S1E2: Women In Compliance: Benedicte Nolens

March 10, 2021 RAW Compliance Season 1 Episode 2
The Compliance Word
S1E2: Women In Compliance: Benedicte Nolens
Chapters
0:00
Intro
2:00
Benedicte Nolens Career
6:57
The Beginnings Of Compliance
9:44
The Start Of Oonagh's and Benedicte's Career
15:33
How Does Benedicte Find Time For Herself?
22:13
How To Find Balance
26:32
Innovation and Making Real Change
29:04
Adapting To Your Environment
30:40
Discovering Bitcoin and Crypto
34:22
Bring People On Your Journey With You
36:31
Green Finance
44:14
Outro
45:30
Career Opportunities in Crypto and Green
The Compliance Word
S1E2: Women In Compliance: Benedicte Nolens
Mar 10, 2021 Season 1 Episode 2
RAW Compliance

Benedicte Nolens is  an accomplished senior executive in the financial industry with over 20 years of experience.  She has in depth experience in implementing risk governance frameworks, including through leveraging data analytics, Fintech and Regtech. 

She joins us today to share some of her experience and knowledge of the finance industry and gives advice to anyone looking to follow the same path. Hosted by Oonagh Van Den Berg and edited by Luke McCann.

Show Notes Transcript Chapter Markers

Benedicte Nolens is  an accomplished senior executive in the financial industry with over 20 years of experience.  She has in depth experience in implementing risk governance frameworks, including through leveraging data analytics, Fintech and Regtech. 

She joins us today to share some of her experience and knowledge of the finance industry and gives advice to anyone looking to follow the same path. Hosted by Oonagh Van Den Berg and edited by Luke McCann.

Intro: 0:02

Welcome to the RAW compliance podcast. Each week on the compliance word host Oonagh van den Berg will meet with practitioners from across the industry, public, private, FinTech, and RegTech providers. They will honestly and RAWly discuss topics impacting risk mitigation in financial services and financial crime, and how we can build a sustainable and credible compliance culture. Our aim is to empower our listeners with the knowledge and skills to tackle these problems and promote positive change to the global compliance community. And now, your host Oonagh van den Berg.

Oonagh van den Berg: 0:51

Benedicte, to start with, do you maybe just want to kind of give us a bit of background about yourself, where you're from, and how you ended up in Hong Kong as well. And then we can talk about your career, where your career started, where you are today, and the kind of transitions you've gone through. And obviously, I want to talk a lot about your passions around innovation. You're one of my biggest role models when it comes to innovation and being passionate about change and the right change. So I wanted to really talk with you about that and just share that passion that you have with other people because it's infectious. And it's interesting, I spoke with a lady the other day, and she said, “Oh, my goodness, me when you when you speak with such enthusiasm about innovation, you sound like Benedicte Nolens” that our listeners are going to be able to get to hear from you. [Let’ start with] just a little bit about yourself. I know that you're from Belgium originally, and you now live in Hong Kong. But would you like to share with us what brought you to Hong Kong and how you ended up here?

Benedicte Nolens: 2:01

Yeah, so you're right, I was born and raised in Belgium, I did a master's degree in the United States. And then I started my career at White & Case as a lawyer in New York. I did that for a year. At that point, I was being transferred by them to Belgium. And to be frank, I thought it was too early in my career to move back to my home. I thought I had a longer career planned offshore. And at that time, I was doing a trip to China to just try and understand what China was all about. I actually didn't know Hong Kong at all, but I met at White & Case my partner who said that he could introduce me to China. So I arrived here really to visit China. And then I got put into interviews. And by sheer coincidence I'd say, Goldman, offered me a job. That was in 1997.

Oonagh van den Berg: 3:17

And obviously, in 1997, Hong Kong went was going through a massive transition there with the UK stepping away from Hong Kong. And you obviously then lived that and breathed that. How was that? A lot of people I've spoken to talk about that transition, but you obviously stepped into Hong Kong in the midst of it. So how did you find that transition?

Benedicte Nolens: 3:38

Yeah. So that was the coincidence in the story. As said, ideally at the time I wanted an international career. So when people offered me Hong Kong, I went like okay, why not Hong Kong! Now, I obviously didn't put much thought into the fact that the handover was going on, but inversely I also thought that the time that Hong Kong was a golden egg to China and that I had quite a safe and long-term future here, which explains why I took up the role. Inversely as well, if you look at it with the benefit of hindsight, it's always when people leave that there is an opportunity to either come or to stay. So you always have to be a little bit contrarian in life, right? The opportunities don't exist where everybody goes, the opportunities actually exist where most people are not going. So 1997 was a change point then and a lot of British were returning to the UK. I guess I was one of the very few Europeans who was arriving exactly over the same period because I literally arrived in November 1997 and the handover had taken place in July. The handover proved to have absolutely no impact on my life for the last 23 years here. However, when I arrived the main impact was the start of the Asian financial crisis, because the BAHT crisis had started before the handover. It started hitting Hong Kong exactly on the days of my arrival. So while I was still in Belgium and resigning from the White & Case, people at the time asked whether I still had a job given what was going on. By the time I arrived, Goldman Sachs did in the month of November 1997 one of the last successful, huge IPOs at the time, which was China Mobile. After that, we went into the Asia financial crisis mode. And after that, there were several other crises, one after the other. I would say it made me very crisis resistant. From a compliance standpoint, that was the opportunity: the growth period of compliance is always very big when there is a crisis. But funnily enough, compliance has it two ways because it also grows when there are new things. I always feel that's the benefit of compliance. It is what I call acyclical: if the cycle goes down, it’s good; if the cycle goes up, it is also good.

Oonagh van den Berg: 6:47

It’s honestly amazing. Compliance itself is a relatively new department, so to speak. It did initially begin as a subset of legal in many firms: we had legal and compliance. And slowly going into 2010-2011, it began to come out on its own as a department in its own right. A lot of the compliance departments that exist today historically did start under legal and you started your career as you mentioned in law. When you moved to Hong Kong as part of joining Goldman's, at what point did you then move into compliance? And obviously, I know that you've worked with the regulator as well. How did you transition over from legal into a regulatory environment?

Benedicte Nolens: 7:55

As said, the job I got at Goldman Sachs was very much a coincidence. But when I took the interviews, the general counsel said to me: “You've only one year of post-qualification experience. That's not enough for Goldman Sachs. We only hire people with five years of PQE. But we do have a job in compliance if you want to do that.” And then I said, “Yeah, sounds good”. Because to me, anything sounded good at the time, as long as I got to have a continuation of my international experience. Then the GC quite strikingly said to me: “Do you even know what compliance is?” And I went, like, “I think so”. And she said: “Well, I don't think you know, because even I don't know.” That was 1997: compliance was utterly undefined. No one actually knew what it was. It had started a bit earlier in the United States. But over here, it was extremely unheard of. The compliance team at Goldman at the time, if I remember, well, we were less than 10, so a very, very small team. And essentially, she [the general counsel] made me convince her that I would do that switch from legal to compliance. She did add, though, that she thought compliance in many ways was more interesting than legal because it would be constantly evolving and grow much faster. With hindsight, she's been absolutely accurate on that. It's grown very, very fast. And it's a constant learning experience. In sum, I think in many ways, it is more interesting than then a purely legal in-house job.

Oonagh van den Berg: 9:44

I couldn't agree with you more. As said, I started out doing ISDA agreements. I was just like, really is this what I'm going to do for the rest of my life? After I did my legal training and internship at the European Central Bank, which was incredibly exciting, and if I may say, very sexy: I was getting to look at regulations, do a comparative analysis between different regulations to see if there were any discrepancies, advising the Bank of England and the Central Bank of Ireland on monetary policy, etc. And let's be honest: I had just left university. I realized very, very quickly, and that was actually a very sobering moment, that I knew nothing. When you leave University, you're actually on this high, you think “I've mastered this, I know everything”. And I suddenly had that sobering moment that I realized I knew nothing and that if I really wanted to do my job well, it wasn't just about reading regulations, it was also about understanding the products and understanding the business. And that was a massive realization. When I went to London, I joined Rabobank and started doing ISDA agreements, and then got offered a permanent role at JP Morgan on a product development team. I was in charge of advising on the legal requirements for funds into Luxembourg, Germany, etc, making sure the prospectuses were correct. I accidentally discovered compliance while working there and I was drawn to it. I thought, oh, my goodness, so this is the department that covers regulation, covers products, and advises? I didn't even know it existed. This was like 2005. The head of compliance used to go to the pub at lunchtime and would come back drunk for the rest of the day. I felt this is not a bad job! I was like, this is perfect. Having just been a student, I was like, “where do I sign up for compliance.” My first job in compliance was implementing MIFID. That was back in 2007. And again that was an incredibly sobering moment for me because I realized I'd have to throw myself in the deep end and learn the products, understand the business model, understand the client types. Then I began to realize just all of the spheres and all of the areas of compliance that existed. It sounds on the surface such an easy area to step into. But once you step into it, it's like Pandora's box: the products, services, different areas, courts, corporate finance, research, retail clients, institutional clients, all of these things. If somebody had told me all these things when I started in compliance,  it might have scared me away. Obviously, Goldman is one of the top establishments globally. Even in compliance, it's seen as like the gold standard. So you really did jump right into the deep end.

Benedicte Nolens: 12:53

Yeah, I did get really, really lucky to start my career at Goldman. But I didn't have that opportunity while I was in New York. I was as said at a law firm, White & Case. And I remember thinking that Wall Street should be my target, as opposed to the law firm! But just couldn't see how, as a Belgian, from a village, I would make it onto Wall Street. And so then [in 1997] I came to Hong Kong, really to travel and discover China. And when I got this job offer from Goldman, as said earlier, honestly, it didn't matter what they were offering, I was just going to take it anyway. The GC extensively tried to scare me off from compliance, but I think it was the right choice. Then from compliance, I evolved into regulation. And then interestingly, while at the regulator, is when I got involved in innovation, which is unusual because you wouldn't have expected that you do innovation at the regulator! For me, this is the second job now where I'm doing innovation at the regulator. You can do anything with compliance because compliance teaches you to be incredibly agile. As you say, you need to learn constantly: you need to learn new products, you need to be very, very good at advising, you need to be very, very good at understanding why you're saying certain things and why you're advising on certain things. And these skill sets are very useful for many, many other things, like yourself: you're very agile. And that's why you're able to run a start-up now which is really very difficult. It requires learning new skills incredibly fast. And not only that, it requires this juggling of many, many things. I think compliance just teaches you that. And I think the inverse: a specialized role (you just came up with the best example marking up ISDA agreements) may not teach you his agility that you need for innovation.

Oonagh van den Berg: 15:33

I have to say that I am able to do what I do because I have the influence of role models such as yourself around me. And I am not saying that being polite. I honestly mean it. When I look at people like yourself, and especially what you have done at the SFC [Securities and Futures Commission], at Standard Chartered Bank, and obviously now at BIS [Bank for International Settlements], you are the face of innovation. From its inception, you are sitting in the Fintech Association, and at the SFC you were involved in discussions around regulation of decentralized finance [DeFi], etc. You are inspirational. And one of the things I really feel when I speak with you is the passion that you have for all of the things that you do. Not only the passion but also the amount of detail that you can go into. Sometimes I am like “at which point do I tell her that I don’t fully understand?” But I am just agreeing: “of course I saw that.” I often wonder where do you find the time to do all these things, because as a role model you are a mother, you have two young sons, you are a wife, you are a successful leader, you are one of the co-chairs of WIFA [Women in Finance Asia], when is there time for you? I know that you hike and often post pictures of food with your kids in different parts of Hong Kong, which I love as well, kind of treats for them for doing their homeschooling. When do you find time for yourself? 

Benedicte Nolens: 15:34

I am not actually spending a lot of time on myself because I get very bored with myself. So I need to constantly be doing something. What I need to learn is to slow down, it's not something I can do. I thought age would teach me this but it is actually if anything getting worse, meaning that I want to do more things and keep myself too busy. I think eventually my body may get hurt in one way or the other for not treating it very well. That said, in terms of your question about where I learn the new things including the detail you spoke about: I am a very avid user of social media. That includes LinkedIn and in particular WhatsApp. I love WhatsApp because a lot of my networks alert me to the news. Of course, I also read newspapers. But what I find is that very often my networks alert me faster. In the newspaper, there might be articles on topics that are not on innovation. So if I'm looking for the innovation topic specifically, my networks are oftentimes a better source to know the latest information. Now, obviously, some people are quite negative about the fact that social media targets things at you in line with your preferences, because it knows what I click and sends me more of that. LinkedIn is for sure one of these networks. Even though it's high-quality content, the content is very clearly targeted at me based on what I've clicked in the past. But my view is that this is okay as long as I am conscious that that is the case. The same applies to specific fields within innovation, such as for example, sustainability, green finance, etc: as long as I realize that these networks reinforce my preferences, that's okay in my view. Right? I can read articles on [other topics such as] Trump or Biden in the Wall Street Journal. In sum, I spend a lot of time reading news articles. Yeah, it's constant. But I would say inversely, am very bad at books. I see you have a lot of books on your shelf?

Oonagh van den Berg: 20:41

I'm just going to be blatantly honest with you: I have read very few of them. A lot of people have said to me, “oh you have to buy this book; it will change your life”. It has changed my bookshelf, but not my life. Some people after webinars message me: “Oh, I see you have this book. Wasn't that amazing?” I'm like, “yeah, it's great.” The one I've used the most is probably the legal dictionary. I don't even read newspapers anymore. I just am reliant on the feeds, which sounds terrible as well. I'm relying on the feeds that I'm getting through because there's a lot of stuff that's changing so quickly. And again, these WhatsApp groups that we are members of, the information comes through constantly. Like you, I also have contacts in other jurisdictions, including in the US government and other governments and in the industry, and they're all posting stuff as well. So I'm thinking, well, somebody is going to be on top of this, and I can share stuff as and when I see it. I think as a collective, as a community, we're all kind of working together. One of the things I really loved and what you talked about is your journey: Goldman to Credit Suisse to the SFC to Circle to Standard Chartered, and then now at the Bank for International Settlements. A lot of people talk about a five-year plan. I remember once going to a job interview, and the CEO of a private bank, saying to me: “if you don't have a five-year plan, it means you're not structured.” I was kind of thinking to myself: you can plan for five years, but you just don't know how it's going to evolve. Did you have a career path? I suppose the answer was “no, it just happened.” I suppose life is what happens when you're busy making other plans. You have to naturally find yourself in an environment that you really are the best in, such as in your case driving innovation, challenging the status quo. And that's actually something I really wanted to talk to you about: there obviously is a line between challenging and staying within the confines of what is expected. So the question I have is: how challenging do you find that? Knowing that you want to be innovative and that you want to push it, but also needing to take a step back and look at the bigger picture.

Benedicte Nolens: 23:38

You raise many, many interesting points. On the last one, I think I have learned with age that you need to adjust to your exact employer. Different employers have very different paces, even if you are, hired for innovation This is my fourth innovation job. Each one of these has an utterly distinct pace. There are always confines that you live in. As to planning, I don't plan much in my life. I plan my investments. Other than my investments, I plan absolutely nothing. Particularly in my career, I didn't plan it at all. That said, the key for everybody is that you must enjoy what you do. If you don't enjoy it honestly, it's better to quit it. There was one particular role, where I just continued doing it, despite knowing that there were many things I disliked. And with the benefit of hindsight, is it worth spending many years of your life fighting against a wave? Or maybe not just one wave, but a continued tsunami of waves? The answer is probably no. But at the same time, if you ask me do I regret that? Not at all, because the other evolution of my career would not have taken place without me sitting that job out. In sum, for innovation, you need to adjust to the pace of your organization because even if you're hired for an innovation job, it may be fast or slow. But in regards to your own career, if you really dislike the role you're in (and normally it's not the role because you know exactly the role that you chose; normally it is the people around you) then sometimes it is worth making a move faster.

Oonagh van den Berg: 26:32

It's interesting in the context of my looking back at my younger self. I just turned 40 last year, and I looked back and reflected on my earlier career. I think that nobody that I've worked with will say anything about my technical skills (even if I do say so myself, I'm bloody good at what I do), but my goodness me, I'm sure I was the most annoying and frustrating person for them to have to work with because exactly of what you said: I really believed that I could affect change. I really believed that I could change processes to make them more effective, more efficient. I always thought it's: really good to have a fresh set of eyes and do things better. Or we could improve the effectiveness or efficiency or sustainability, or we could make this process more agile. But sometimes people don't want to hear that. Instead, they just want to get on with the job. In sum, you have to be very careful with your environment. And this was something that I only realized last year: you cannot as an individual affect real change in a large organization, because a real change requires everybody and the organization to begin to change. We have to move the sails to catch the wind. It was only last year where I realized you need to be in the right environment in order for you to really be able to use your skill sets to the best of the best of your abilities. I kind of look back and think to myself: did I then waste a lot of time working in jobs or working in organizations? I don't believe that I did. Because every single time I learned something new and something different. And I think the same with you. We both have the luxury of being able to bring all of those learnings, the good, the bad, and the ugly, to the table and pull it together and say: I can tell you what works, what doesn't work, and how we can potentially do this better and then work together. 

Benedicte Nolens: 28:58

Yeah, it is critical to know your environment, to know the people around you, and to understand what they appreciate more. Sometimes they might appreciate a change that takes three years rather than a change that takes one year. For example, in a regulatory role, if you make a change fast, you need to be very, very cautious because you may not have understood the full evolution. There could be unintended consequences. If technology is involved, maybe the technology is not mature enough. Maybe you're spending millions (or a lot more than that) on something that is not going to reach the necessary stage of scale and maturity. That's one example where you would say you're actually better driving that change slowly. Inversely, I have realized that sometimes I see things too fast [when people are not ready to accept it yet]. I'll give you a very concrete example: I got onto Bitcoin in 2013. When we looked at Bitcoin, we went like “this is going to be really, really significant for regulation”. I was reminded of this because I was digging in a drawer this weekend and found this report that was never published. It was written in 2014, about 60 pages long, on the impact that Bitcoin and crypto would have on regulation. And you have to keep in mind that this is before even the [Ethereum] DAO and the ICOs, which made everybody wake up that something significant was happening. It was also before the stable coins. The moral of the story is that if you're too early, it doesn't help you. You often see this, even in start-ups: when they're too early, they die. And the follower, not even the fast follower, sometimes the slow followers, win. It takes an amount of navel-gazing and reflection to realize that just being ahead of the curve is not going to make you successful. What makes you successful is being ahead of the curve and then being fully prepared when the time is right. And when the time is right depends on the situation. For that specific example, if you're talking about investment, the time was right a long time ago. But if you're talking about regulation, the time was right a little bit less long ago. And if you're talking about mainstreaming, we aren't even there yet. Another example I would raise is green finance. I issued a report on that in 2015. And you can see, it's only today that people go like: “Wow, it is mainstream”. That example is mainstreaming extremely fast, because of the presidential change in the United States. In sum, it takes the group to move the group that you're with, and sometimes it even takes society to move before you can make a true impact with a new topic because true impact comes from the number of people who are engaged in the topic. While to me it’s always the most satisfying moment when I've discovered a new thing that others haven't yet, and while those are my best memories, if society isn't moving as a whole, that thing is not impactful. It becomes impactful when more than a small sample is doing it.

Oonagh van den Berg: 34:21

One of the things that I loved in what you said was with regards to the challenge of bringing people on the journey. This is one thing that I also learned. One of my CEOs said to me once: “The problem that you have is that you go from A to Z. But other people are still trying to get to B. It's not that you've got the wrong idea. You definitely are going in the right direction, but you need to bring people on that journey with you.” That was a big realization for me that, whilst you know where we're trying to get to, and you know what we need to do, you need to bring everybody else together and to bring them on that journey. Don't be too quick to implement change. And this is very, very true with respect to systems or processes: figure out and understand why the process and controls exist, why they exist today, and why certain decisions have been made. I have seen it myself: when people have been too quick to make a change, balls get dropped, and little errors can have a massive knock-on effect. I'm very conscious of time [left for our podcast]. You're heavily involved in green finance. And that has been an evolving area, people talk about it, but again, do they really understand what green finance is? Would you maybe just be able to explain kind of the work that you're doing? I know that you have been involved in a number of webinars and conferences recently around it, but maybe just can talk about the importance of the development towards green finance, and especially as part of ESG policy, and whether environmental impacts of your clients need to be taken into consideration.

Benedicte Nolens: 37:15

My first work on that was in 2015. I went to meet some of the world's largest asset managers. The typical question was: “what does ESG even mean?” That was question number one. Question (or rather opposition) number two was that asset managers believed their fiduciary duty was to generate financial returns and not to be considering ESG factors. That's six years ago. And you know where we're now: there's a mass movement driven by the consumer, in this case, the investor. Investors are saying: “Well, look, financial performance matters a lot, but we need to know where the ESG impact is.” Something additional has happened as well, which is that the real financial opportunities were in ESG oriented companies. For example, renewables have seen enormous upside in their share price. I'm not sure if you saw last week, but the FT had an article on how there is some bubble risk around it. So again, it goes towards what I said earlier: following a trend early is important, but where the societal impact comes in, is when a big group of people believes in it. And in this case, except for some asset managers who had real foresight and launched green funds early, there were those who just didn't see the commercial opportunity because the consumer, in this case as said the investor, was simply not aware [and not asking for it]. But now it's the opposite: every single asset manager has a huge demand for green products. In my opinion, the ESG evolution is well on the way to mainstreaming. As a result, my focus is now shifting to how you can check it: how you can check that people are really doing it? They'll say they're doing it, but can they support it with figures and “environmental risk analysis”? The reality is that there are still very few modeling [tools] around this, For example, modeling climate impact is easier than if you need to model multifactor impact, such as biodiversity impact, impact on soil, and impact on the water. 

Oonagh van den Berg: 41:09

It's really amazing the environment that we're in today. I saw earlier this week an entity called Extinction Rebellion. They've done a call to action targeting fossil fuel companies, creating an external platform for whistleblowing, because they want to start to affect change. And it's really interesting because we work in the financial sector, which has always been quite traditional. We didn't get to get impacted too much by these types of issues. But we're beginning to see that all of this disruption that's happening within these NGOs is finally beginning to try and change in our industry. And it's a very different world. Maybe that's a way to wrap up our podcast: back when you started in 1997, I don't know if you could have ever imagined that today, we'd be sitting talking about green finance because that wouldn't have even crossed your table or even been a topic of discussion, because, frankly, nobody cared. But our entire society, our global approach has changed significantly. And obviously, the changes aren't just around decentralized finance, but they're also around what companies do to generate their incomes and whether they're doing it economically, societally, or environmentally responsible [fashion]. So I think we've got a lot of work on our plates over the coming months and years ahead because I genuinely believe that we're at a turning point in our industry, a massive turning point, which is going to have a catalytic impact and change everything that we think that we know today about the way that financial institutions and banking operates.

Benedicte Nolens: 43:03

Personally, I've been on a very long green journey. Because I was born in a village, I used to play outside in forests. So for me, it's always been very critical. I would say, credit to Goldman on this because at the time of the UN PRI [United Nations Principles on Responsible Investment] which date back to the early 2000s, they started a department that was focused on ESG factor research on companies. But you're right, there was no demand at the time, so that whole group was at some point dropped. That said, it's had a major comeback now and some of the people from that group are still my good friends in this sector. They were really part of the early focus on green.

Oonagh van den Berg: 44:14

It has been phenomenal today to meet with you Benedicte. You are an inspiration to me. You're somebody that I look up to in the industry. I think it's amazing what you've achieved. And I think it's amazing the impact you have. And one of the things that I'm always very mindful of is that I think that it would be a very sad situation for anyone to come into this world, and go out of it without having made some type of impact. And you are definitely somebody that can step back and say: I've made an incredible change and I've made an impact because the work that you're doing is absolutely phenomenal. And you are on the cutting edge of innovation. I have a massive amount of respect for you. It has been such a pleasure to get you on the podcast. Thank you so much for taking some time as I know how busy you are. Are there any final words that you may have for our listeners?

Benedicte Nolens: 45:10

I would say I am a big fan of compliance as a profession. It can lead in many directions and continues to. But to lead in many directions, it's always important to choose a new path. And that's innovation. We touched on two new paths in this podcast: both green and environmental risk analysis from a legal compliance and risk standpoint and the crypto markets offer a lot of job opportunities. I know you have a separate series going on crypto and I'll also be part of that. There are a lot of regulatory developments in this space and there's a lot of need for compliance as the area continues to evolve. In sum, even within compliance, there are new jobs. And it's always best to focus on there because if you continue focusing on what you've done for the last 10 to 20 years, it's normally not the best way to make the next career move!

Oonagh Van Den Berg: 46:33

Absolutely. Thank you so much!

Benedicte Nolens: 47:24

It's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you!



Intro
Benedicte Nolens Career
The Beginnings Of Compliance
The Start Of Oonagh's and Benedicte's Career
How Does Benedicte Find Time For Herself?
How To Find Balance
Innovation and Making Real Change
Adapting To Your Environment
Discovering Bitcoin and Crypto
Bring People On Your Journey With You
Green Finance
Outro
Career Opportunities in Crypto and Green